landscape architecture for landscape architects › forums › professional practice › why are there \"weak talented\" licensed landscape architects??? tagged: professional practice this topic has 27 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 6 years, 5 months ago by andrew garulay, rla. viewing 13 posts - 16 through 28 (of 28 total) ← 1 2 author posts december 9, 2019 at 12:09 pm #3558570 andrew garulay, rlaparticipant bob, it is nice to know that i can hire you when i need to have a nicely rendered project. i’ll call you if that happens. december 9, 2019 at 10:13 pm #3558572 j. robert (bob) wainnerparticipant andrew…..well, that’s nice of you, but, i’m not so sure you could afford my services…….*smile* december 16, 2019 at 4:08 pm #3558772 nick schmidt aicp, pmpparticipant why are there some older landscape architects not drawing with a scale? not drawing to design regulations? not drawing with regards to topography? why are the clients still going to these firms, and why do i have to spend countless hours cleaning up the designs? i am planner who designs subdivisions but i have worked alongside las for 15 years. the same rules apply to park design, planting plans, design build, etc. i am tired of bowing down to the equally…terrible…work coming from higher up the food chain. rework costs the client money. it’s lose/lose having to correct a 65 year old’s hand rendered site design with 1′ sidewalks, 5′ overstory trees, 2′ landscape buffers, 7′ two-way driveways. to make matters worse, the back of the commercial building pad is not drawn along the correct elevation line, so now part of the building is in the floodplain. i guess that old school landscape architect used some snazzy chartpak, prismacolor, and tria markers, touched it up with accents of soft pastels and some “architect” line type to get the client buy-in. but when it came time to making the actual site work beyond the pretty picture, the cad drawing didn’t make sense. it couldn’t be engineered and it was overpromised, either in terms of gross leasable area or numbers of dwelling units. now, the cad drawing is sent over to my desk at another firm, and i have to get the same number of lots or square feet but with a smaller developable area. how did these older people, who are quite terrible in site design, landscape architecture, etc.stay in the profession over 4,5,6 decades…and get away with it? december 16, 2019 at 9:25 pm #3558773 leslie b wagleparticipant that sure wouldn’t have passed basic level courses at any point in history i know of. so….the mysteries will always be there. december 16, 2019 at 11:47 pm #3558774 j. robert (bob) wainnerparticipant nick…i personally find your comments a bit insulting & unprofessional. wow, you must have been doing a lot of “clean up autocad work” in 9 different jobs over the past 15 years, huh. when you graduate with an la degree in 1977, like i did, there was no such thing as “autocad”…and many la graduates never made it, because, they didn’t have descent drawing, graphic or architectural drawing skills. i did. i took my first architectural drafting course the 1st semester of the 7th grade & made an “a” in the course. took 4 more similar courses before i finished high school…along with 3 art courses. plus, 3 semesters @ the university of north texas in denton…more graphic design & architectural drawing courses…made “a’s” in all of the courses too. after 4 yrs. in the navy…an la degree @ texas a&m…then, 14 yrs. with 2 la firms before going out on my own @ age 41. now, at age 70, i have managed to design close to 600 projects in 14 different states. yes, i may be “old school”, and never learned autocad (way too busy)…and worked as a one person la firm since 1991. my final contract documents absolutely matched up with my preliminary color renderings and prelim. sketches i presented to my clients. never rec’d a complaint from a client or any contractors about the quality of my designs or the accuracy of my work. no other designers had to go in an “clean up my drawings” as you mentioned. i even had a couple of civil engineers and architects ask me if my final contract documents were “autocad”? and, i explained to them, “no, i have produced all of my drawings “by hand”…they really couldn’t see the difference. i could have easily retired several years ago…but, i chose to remain actively designing as i have always had a passion for creativity, design & graphic design. but, i have personally seen la portfolios of las who have 15, 20 and more experienced that are just “seriously weak”. poor graphics, autocad drawing with poor line weights where you could read or understand the drawings…and just poor quality designs as well. i don’t know why some very experienced las have been able to practice for so many years, i can only speak for myself. since you have “zero” samples of your design portfolio available for us to see…we really can’t see your work. we just know that you have designed for 9 different design firms over the past 15 years. there are many very experience “older” landscape architects out there producing outstanding projects…most do know autocad, sketchup and a variety of other computer software programs…and many also have outstand “hand drawing” and “graphic design” skills. some of the most talented las in the world have 30 to 50 yrs. of experience and they deserve a lot of respect for what they have accomplished during their careers. december 17, 2019 at 8:40 am #3558776 andrew garulay, rlaparticipant can anyone offer a different opinion without getting slammed? no wonder no one participates on these forums anymore. december 17, 2019 at 12:34 pm #3558778 j. robert (bob) wainnerparticipant it really wouldn’t matter, andrew. we have all been criticized here on land 8 from time to time or another for our comments here. just differences of opinions. land 8 says there are 1.5 million members…..but, i just counted only (60) members who were active here on land 8 during the past (60) days. members should get involved, but, they don’t. there are several blogs and many forums…that members could comment on…but, few members get involved. my comment above…was because, i believe imo, that member’s comment was being unfair to senior la’s. and, he’s a “land planner”…guess he’s an “expert” about landscape architecture……not. my opinion. december 17, 2019 at 3:44 pm #3558779 nick schmidt aicp, pmpparticipant nickrschmidt.com. there are about 40 projects on there for your viewing and critiques. i have a much larger project catalog of 100-150 projects that are not on the internet but they are carefully documented and explained and are kept as files of record. as for my work history: i have worked for 5 different employers since 2005, not 9. i was also laid off 4 times in 8 years in 3 states due to lack of work, several of the layoffs occurred during the great recession and the last one was due to lack of work as a result of hurricane harvey. you have a lot of nerve attacking my work history, especially when these were circumstances beyond my control. since 2003, i have worked on 150-175 projects in 3 states. i am one of the few planners who are both aicp and pmp credentialed, and i am 5 years away from earning an faicp designation. i run my own free lance graphics firm on the side, worksmart graphics which i started in 2017 which largely focuses on non-planning work to avoid conflicts of interest. on top of that i am looking into pursuing a graduate degree part time related to land development starting in 2021, either an msred, mba, or a masters in finance with a real estate specialization while i continue to work full time in planning. i am not some stupid, ignorant idiot who has had 15 jobs. now, back to the meat of the argument. what does my personal work history have to do with identifying poor quality work from the older generation? as a pmp, i am a huge proponent of quality management and continuous improvement. if i see bad work it is bad work. it doesn’t matter if it done by someone in college or someone 5 decades out of college. it is bad work. and there are plenty of older people who have gotten by with bad work in their career. that’s why i responded to this post. i targeted older practitioners because poor quality work can be found at any age group and at any level of experience. it’s all of our responsibility to identify poor quality work. if i did a bad job producing a plan and a junior designer told me the error, i would take it seriously and make the change. i would even thank the person who told me the error because it makes the overall product better for the client (or averted a bigger series of problems for the project site if it went unnoticed). who cares if i had 15 years or 45 years or 1 year of experience? if i can make a well-constructed, objective, impartial argument free of personal bias, then i should make that argument. last but not least. most licenses and certifications (engineering, architecture, landscape architecture, planning, surveying) have a code of ethics, and they usually say it is our professional responsibility to identify errors on plans, or something to that effect. i have been aicp since i was 27 (and i was also an apa ethics officer for a few years) and i have been identifying problems on drawings by others since day 1 (planers, engineers, surveyors, landscape architects, architects). all members on a project team should do a quality check throughout the project life cycle. december 17, 2019 at 4:06 pm #3558780 j. robert (bob) wainnerparticipant nick…i do apologize. i didn’t intend to offend you…just felt “some” of your comments were uncalled for. and, i know some of mine were too. i wasn’t able to view any of your projects….though, i wanted to. i’m sure you are a very well qualified “land planner”. well, i can understand the layoff situation. imo, during the 8 yrs. obama was in the wh, the job situation was not very good for many professions…even many design professions. well, i think to “some degree” work history does play a role in a designer’s career…but, you certainly have some valid reasons for your working for different design firms. i find way too many young la’s and designers who don’t put in enough years as an “intern” with an established firm…where they will learn from experienced and talented designers. many work a few years and think they’re ready to go out on their own…when they just aren’t. imo, you can’t teach yourself “landscape architecture”. i put in 14 calendar years working for (2) different la firms (plus, 2 yrs. worth of over-time, before i went out on my own at the age of 41. the experience i gained was extensive…designing a wide variety of projects in multiple states. so, i felt i would be ok on my own. took 2 years of serious marketing to get my own private practice up and running. and, actually, the majority of las in the u.s. are actually “freelance”, they don’t work for la firms. and, from a financial view point, working for yourself usually works out a lot better. my annual income jumped 5x to 7x what the dallas la firm was paying me and i wasn’t pulling anymore hours working on my own. my own fault, should have gone out on my own a few yrs. earlier. but, i picked up a lot of fantastic experience as i moved on. had i had the opportunity, i too would have considered an mlb. that degree would be especially useful should you est. your own design firm. december 17, 2019 at 4:26 pm #3558781 nick schmidt aicp, pmpparticipant i’m not a landscape architect and i don’t have a landscape architect license. i don’t have a bla or an mla. who the hell cares? as a planner i did landscape plan reviews for several municipalities a decade ago (and i started at age 24). i remember at least 2 or 3 landscape architects who ran independent practices. their work was filled with errors over multiple sites over multiple municipalities. they were constantly hired by different clients despite the awful work. typical planting plan errors by “older” landscape architects (insert sarcasm here) (based on personal review of ~650 planting plans for 13 municipalities over 4 years of all age groups) 1. plant unit tables drawn by hand but not checked with a calculator. incorrect plant unit tabulations for bufferyard landscaping, foundation landscaping, parking island landscaping, and woody plantings along a stormwater high water line. 2. beautiful colored hand renderings of 5 different types of parkway tree symbols (in 5 colors) but the plant species table listed them as a single tree species (acer rubrum or red maple). 3. same as #2 but the tree species is acer japonicum (japenese maple which is not used as a parkway tree) 4. large 8′-10′ existing heritage trees in the middle of a property where the building will be built. these are not identified in the tree preservation plan and there is no provision for replacement costs in the petitioned plans). 5. trash enclosures have 8′ barbed wire fences (ouch). yeah, i guess i don’t know a thing about landscape design being a 38 year old land planner. december 17, 2019 at 4:36 pm #3558782 nick schmidt aicp, pmpparticipant my land8 profile has a link to my linkedin page. my linkedin page has a link to my personal website. perhaps you should do a little more homework on me and my personal experience (all of which is described in detail) before attacking my initial post. december 17, 2019 at 4:58 pm #3558783 j. robert (bob) wainnerparticipant jeeezzzzzz nick, get a grip. i’m not going to apologize to you twice. your points are well taken…..let’s move on, shall we. respectfully, j. robert (bob) wainner december 18, 2019 at 9:29 am #3558784 andrew garulay, rlaparticipant i think it is good to hear from other professionals on their experiences with landscape architects. it is not a slam on our profession. nick did not say that all old school landscape architect’s suck. nick does actually support bob’s initial point that some landscape architects are not great. it is a diverse profession as i say all the time. none of the skills are absolutely essential to every project, but every project requires the right skills for that project. landscape architecture is not a religion. it is a profession. i would add that some municipal projects are done by less than elite firms that are hired by general contractors to meet the minimal requirements that the municipality has. they are often hired based on speed and cost because the gc is more interested in getting through permitting quickly than in the landscape. some of those firms might delegate too much to interns and view the city requirements as being so basic that they don’t scrutinize their work very much before stamping it and filing it. that is why someone doing what nick was doing is essential for the municipality – they can’t just rely on the fact that an la stamped it. author posts viewing 13 posts - 16 through 28 (of 28 total) ← 1 2 you must be logged in to reply to this topic. log in username: password: keep me signed in in order to pass the captcha please enable javascript log in
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landscape architecture for landscape architects › forums › story board › what all can you do without a license? this topic has 1 reply, 7 voices, and was last updated 10 years, 9 months ago by craig richmond, rla. viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 17 total) 1 2 → author posts august 31, 2015 at 7:15 pm #151748 anonymousinactive what all can you do without a license? legally? august 31, 2015 at 7:40 pm #151764 craig richmond, rlaparticipant it depends on what state or local municipality you want to do work in. i know a few unlicensed landscape designers who are running profitable businesses. the common denominator with them is they all are talented and well connected. august 31, 2015 at 10:46 pm #151763 anonymousinactive thanks for the response! do you know of any examples? i guess i am just curious of what specific elements can i do legally as an unlicensed la compared a licensed la? what doors will open when i get my license? september 1, 2015 at 2:17 am #151762 robotparticipant as craig said, it depends on what state or local municipality you want to do work in. here are links to some of the regulating authorities that you might encounter working in the memphis vicinity: https://www.tn.gov/commerce/section/architects-engineers http://www.msboa.ms.gov/pages/default.aspx http://asbalaid.arkansas.gov/pages/default.aspx september 1, 2015 at 11:58 am #151761 anonymousinactive thanks for the info rob! september 1, 2015 at 1:08 pm #151760 dave mccorquodaleparticipant i suppose the biggest difference in my mind is residential vs. commercial. i believe you can do anything you want except call yourself a landscape architect in the residential world. of course there are municipal regulations that prescribe when a licensed professional must be on board (irrigation, structural/civil engineers, etc). while 90% of my work doesn’t require a license, i really wanted an immediate, distinguishable difference between me and my competition. my license certainly provides that. almost all of the custom home builders i work with (4 on a regular basis, home value 1.0 mil – 3.0 mil) use certified building designers licensed in texas. they don’t use licensed architects. as craig pointed out, talent and connections allow these home designers to do very well without a formal architecture license. dave september 1, 2015 at 1:16 pm #151759 andrew garulay, rlaparticipant one thing that i learned over the years is that, at least where i work (massachusetts), is that it is not the stamp that does much for you, but it is the process that gets you to the stamp that opens doors for you. i know more people who are not licensed whom others believe are landscape architects than people i know who are licensed landscape architects. it is the work experience, networking, and observation of the things that are going on around you during that journey that allow you to gain access to getting work more than the ability to execute that work which will make all the difference – not so much the stamp itself. september 3, 2015 at 11:08 pm #151758 andrew garulay, rlaparticipant tennessee: “definitions: no definitions of landscape architect or landscape architecture.” like many of the so-called practice acts, tennessee seems to be a title act. what i read does not exempt anyone from doing anything as long as they don’t call what they do landscape architecture or call themselves landscape architects. http://www.asla.org/uploadedfiles/cms/government_affairs/state_gove… the push to make all states have a practice act was a total sham in my opinion. only maine, massachusetts, and illinois don’t pretend to have practice acts. the only state that i’m convinced has a practice act is oregon, but i don’t pretend to have read them all. the most laughable is vermont. it is worth a read: http://www.asla.org/uploadedfiles/cms/government_affairs/state_gove… september 4, 2015 at 3:01 am #151757 anonymousinactive very interesting. just call myself an urban designer and i’m good to go! september 4, 2015 at 12:26 pm #151756 cameron r. rodmanparticipant hey bennett, hope you are well man. some of these responders have it right. some do not. first, learn the ‘law’ on what titles or words are protected. that is the name portion. second, state and location laws/regulations will dictate what you can and cannot do. for instance, in knoxville, and other parts of tn you have to stamp a legal document or drawing to be approved to design and build certain elements. (a wall over four feet is a good example.) this is not a crock, in any way shape or form. i cannot think of too many la’s or landscape designers who have been educates on building structurally enginnered objects. this is a safety and welfare issue. it portects the public from incompetence. licensure is a check point for competency, and yes, protection of future jobs for licensed individuals. you get what you put into it. if you want to design for cities and be a planner go that route and get those educational and legal marking. if you want to do residential design, educate yourself and get experience and operate within your competencies. you’re a smart guy. i don’t think that anyone is naive enough to know that there aren’t politics involved in title acts. but for the most part and for moat ppl, it is a way to protect the public and get a piece of the regulatory standards that control who has access the public dollars. many states will not allow you to design for commercial, institutional, or residential over so many stories without a license. http://www.asla.org/stategovtaffairslicensure.aspx my thought is this, figure out whére you want to go and what you want to do. find out how to get there as cheaply as possible, and go. many designs work under licensed la’s and have a great time and do moat of the same things. big difference is manuverability, maretability, and pay. those are big. but, like any job…it helps to know a lot of connected like minded people. you’ll do great! cameron september 4, 2015 at 1:22 pm #151755 anonymousinactive thanks cameron! i am doing great, i hope you are doing well! i guess it is different for every state and city, i will have to look at every situation. i think its interesting that tn has no legal definition for landscape architecture. “no definitions of landscape architect or landscape architecture”. seems like that would make things legally complicated, but i am no lawyer. i mean frank gehry is doing the greenway plan for the los angeles river right now… i am not trying to be negative about the landscape architecture license. i respect the people that have this license and hope to have one in a few years. i just want to know what i can do until i can afford to drop 2-3 grand on the test… bennett september 4, 2015 at 3:19 pm #151754 andrew garulay, rlaparticipant i’m not against licensing. i was just trying to honestly answer the question asked. based on other threads that you started or participated in i interpret the question to mean that you want to know what you can legally do as a self employed designer in the field of landscape architecture in the place where you live prior to getting your license. you may be limited on what you will be allowed to do, but it does not appear that the act itself limits you whatsoever other than calling what you do “landscape architecture” of calling yourself a “landscape architect”. it looks like you can legally do anything that a licensed landscape architect can do in tennessee based on what i read. that does not mean that municipalities, corporations, other professionals, or individuals will not require you to be an la to do work for them, nor does it mean that you can do work legally reserved to other licensed professionals such as structural engineering, surveying, or civil engineering. i know we as landscape architects are a sensitive profession, but reality is that a lot of state landscape architect practice acts are essentially title acts. i don’t know how anyone reading the tennessee rules can come away with any other conclusion. …. and there are a lot of other states that are essentially title acts that they label practice acts. much of that was because asla had a big campaign to get all states to have practice acts so all the local chapters pushed to get practice acts in their respective states. some successfully made practice acts that actually define landscape architecture and limit whom may practice landscape architecture. most do that and then list exemptions that essentially say “or anyone else”. they tried to do it here in massachusetts, but the landscape contractor lobby is stronger than the landscape architecture lobby. i sure heard about it from a lot of contractors at the time. oddly, that is how i heard about it. we are educated and experienced through the licensing process and because of that we should inherently have a competitive edge and i believe we do. i have no problem with competing with unlicensed designers and do not discourage them from making a living. september 4, 2015 at 6:29 pm #151753 anonymousinactive i completely agree. thank you andrew september 8, 2015 at 8:01 pm #151752 steve robertsparticipant bennett, as a ms state graduate you should know the answers to those questions. if not i need to come back and teach class (the board doesn’t play the i’m stupid game). landscape design which means only planting plans is generally not regulated, pretty much everything else is. as an educated landscape architect anything that you do can affect your ability to get a license so be very careful what you do until you get your license. i would hate for you to do something before you get your license that would prevent from getting it. one of the first questions in most applications for licensure is about practicing prior to licensure. can you answer truthfully that you did not practice prior to licensure? that is the question that matters. september 8, 2015 at 8:49 pm #151751 anonymousinactive mississippi state is an exceptional program and the professors were thorough on the subject. but as you know there are plenty of designers, city planners, architects, and engineers that are practicing “landscape architecture” and not getting into trouble. which made me ask, “what can i do until i get my license?” this article made me ask the question. http://www.latimes.com/opinion/readersreact/la-le-0811-la-river-fra… “everything else” is different in every city and state. author posts viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 17 total) 1 2 → you must be logged in to reply to this topic. log in username: password: keep me signed in in order to pass the captcha please enable javascript log in
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